Public sector organizations face unique challenges when it comes to managing expenses. Strict regulations, heavy approval chains, and lingering paper-based processes often slow down reporting and create frustration for employees and auditors alike.
In this episode of RPI Tech Connect, XM Consultant Rich Mitchell highlights the roadblocks that keep governments, universities, and other publicly funded institutions from modernizing, and how digital solutions can help.
Stick around as we discuss strategies for easing the transition away from paper, designing workflows that prevent mistakes, and building confidence in automated controls. Using Infor XM as a central example, we also examine how the right system can reduce audit risk, simplify compliance, and cut approval times without sacrificing oversight.
If you’re considering a more modern expense management solution, you won’t want to miss this episode. Interested in listening to this episode on another streaming platform? Check out our directories or watch the YouTube video below.
Meet Today’s Guest, Rich Mitchell
Rich Mitchell is a Senior Expense Management (XM) Consultant at RPI Consultants. He has 35 years of public and private sector accounting experience, specializing in global fixed asset software, project management, financial application implementation, and expense management.
Rich built his career working for both small and large organizations, including Infor, where he served as the XM Consulting Services Practice Manager for both cloud and on-premise implementations. Prior to joining RPI, Rich was the Associate Vice President of Global Delivery Services at EdCast Inc. where he successfully grew the business by creating an implementation methodology that enabled faster revenue recognition.
Over the years, Rich has driven process improvements, streamlined enterprise deployments, and successfully completed implementations for major companies such as Facebook, Takeda Pharmaceuticals, Google, and more.
Meet Your Host, Chris Arey
Chris Arey is a B2B marketing professional with nearly a decade of experience working in content creation, copywriting, SEO, website architecture, corporate branding, and social media. Beginning his career as an analyst before making a lateral move into marketing, he combines analytical thinking with creative flair—two fundamental qualities required in marketing.
With a Bachelor’s degree in English and certifications from the Digital Marketing Institute and HubSpot, Chris has spearheaded impactful content marketing initiatives, participated in corporate re-branding efforts, and collaborated with celebrity influencers. He has also worked with award-winning PR professionals to create unique, compelling campaigns that drove brand recognition and revenue growth for his previous employers.
Chris’ versatility is highlighted by his experience working across different industries, including HR, Tech, SaaS, and Consulting.
About RPI Tech Connect
RPI Tech Connect is the go-to podcast for catching up on the dynamic world of Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP). Join us as we discuss the future of ERPs, covering everything from best practices and organizational change to seamless cloud migration and optimizing applications. Plus, we’ll share predictions and insights of what to expect in the future world of ERPs.
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Tune in as we explore tips and tricks in the field of ERP consulting each week and subscribe below.
Transcript
Chris Arey
Welcome back to RPI Tech Connect. I’m your host, Chris Arey. Today we’re diving into an issue that’s top of mind for the public sector: expense management.
Whether accidental or intentional, improper use of taxpayer dollars can have serious consequences. So, we’re going to talk about the challenges that accompany expense management, as well as how to design systems that can prevent mistakes and ensure compliance.
Joining me to discuss all of this is Rich Mitchell, Principal XM consultant here at RPI. He’s got over 30 years of experience using expense management software, working extensively with Infor XM’s standout solution. We’ll talk more about that later.
He’s just got a great understanding of how expense management works as a business function and how it can help organizations maintain public trust.
Rich, welcome to the program, sir.
Rich Mitchell
Thanks, Chris. It’s really a good thing to be here and I really love the topic.
Chris Arey
Yeah, it’s going be a good one. I know you’ve got a lot of stories to share, so let’s just go ahead and jump right into it. I think a great place to start would be to talk about some of the challenges that the public sector faces in managing expenses. What is that world like?
Rich Mitchell
Sure. Let me start by saying that the public sector is not entirely limited to government. Government is always public sector, but not all public sectors are government.
You find many universities that get state grants or federal grants wind up having to be treated as a public sector entity simply because they must account for it in the way the government requires them to account for it.
A lot of the requirements in public sector when it comes to funding and accounting for the use of funds also apply to other places like universities and utilities where they get these funds, they load it in, and the government comes in and does an audit to see that the fund is used properly.
You see something similar in healthcare when they’re getting provisioned by grant organizations that provide them with funding to do research. It’s not entirely quite the same, because even in healthcare you have this rational business model where you can adjust policies as you need, as long as you provide the documentation and how it was spent. It’s different in government.
In some respects, that bleeds over into places like universities that are publicly or state funded. The reason for that is they are governed by fiat. They essentially have a set of regulations that have the force of law, and they have to account for things the way the law is written out. It becomes almost impossible to break that model unless you can turn around and get the law changed.
Chris Arey
And then we know that’s no easy feat right there.
Rich Mitchell
So, no, it’s not. So that becomes really where the headache is. You know, we were just at a local county government where we were doing a design session, and because they are coming from paper, they cannot change their current process until they can prove that this new system can give them the same level of control.
And that is a huge issue for building a configuration process. You can’t take advantage of any of the benefits of the workflow model. They have to wait.
Chris Arey
Yeah.
Rich Mitchell
Why are we still doing it this way? Why don’t we just cut some of the approvals out?
Chris Arey
Yeah, so that paper process you’re talking about there, what’s that look like? That sounds like it probably takes a long time.
Rich Mitchell
Yeah. Unless you’re dealing with mileage, you’re basically looking at having to provide a paper receipt for every penny you spend. If you’re doing it on paper, then having a digital image is not going to count.
You basically have to take whatever picture you’ve got, or the actual receipt, and send it in. Paper almost always requires the original receipt.
So now you’re now filling out an expense report. Even if you’re using a form that does the math for you, you’re printing it and you’re going to staple it to whatever form that the government says you have to fill out, then staple those receipts to it and mail it to somebody.
Chris Arey
So many breakdown points there too, right? Not only with being manual but having to physically hold on to these receipts and compile it into a nice little report and put it in the mail.
Putting something in the mail at any point, it could get lost or get to the wrong address. You could type or write out the wrong number. Are there a lot of organizations in the public sector still going through that kind of process?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, you find it more commonly in the lower level local and state governments, but it’s more tied to local governments at this point in time.
State governments have either figured out some way to do it internally by building their own or they’ve contracted with a vendor that’s FedRAMP certified and they’ll run and load that in because the federal government uses it.
That’ll be enough for them. The funny thing is, the government has a whole bunch of elected officials and they get an individual budget and those officials get to choose how that budget gets spent.
When the agencies structured underneath that government don’t get permission to leverage a piece of software that the controlling headquarters uses, then they don’t bother to buy it.
I’ve got a process, I don’t care, I’m not going to spend my money on that, I have too many other things to do. It almost always it comes from top down when they push something like this out the door.
Chris Arey
Okay. So in terms of policies within these organizations, it sounds like the law really dictates how expenses are managed. Is that right?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, you know, essentially if you step outside that regulation, the expense is not authorized. And if the person who approves it approves it, it still gets stopped at the back office and says, you didn’t do this right. You’re not paid.
It’s ugly because in some circumstances they may be given permission to partially pay. Imagine you file an expense report, you think you’re going to get back X. What winds up happening is you get Y and you have no idea why you’re getting Y, you know, so now somebody has got to send this piece of paper back.
It’s like being in grade school and the teachers mark your paper up with red crayon, you know, sitting there saying, what did do wrong? That kind of thing.
Chris Arey
Yeah. Not correct. Try again.
Rich Mitchell
One of the things that digital expense management gives you is the ability to get that feedback right up front. You set up business rules to say, you can’t do this with this expense, it has to be this and or less, and I need a receipt attached to this line item before you can move forward with it.
That then becomes an instant opportunity for the person who’s filling it out to not do it wrong.
Chris Arey
Okay. Now you mentioned something there I want to go a bit deeper into and that’s the barrier moving from a paper process to digital. There’s obviously a lot of benefits associated with it, but for the folks who are working in some of those smaller, state or local governments who are dealing with budget constraints; how do they go about making a case for the benefits of this digital process?
Rich Mitchell
You know, it’s almost a heartbreaking exercise because you sit there and you know that it’ll lose the job, but they just can’t get their heads wrapped around it. And they turn around and they say, I don’t understand how I’m going to control this process.
You almost have to demonstrate the control, not only through the testing of the application, but I almost always recommend in circumstances where they’re coming from paper that they don’t do a big bang rollout. Take it one department at a time.
Chris Arey
Okay.
Rich Mitchell
Get the feedback from that department, see how it works, see how the control happens, and see how few requirements you have in order to kick something back or partially pay somebody.
Once you have that data in your hand, you can start to assess exactly how you’re engaging in the back-office review process. And then hopefully the client comes back to the consultant saying that they understand what was said in the beginning now.
We want to make the change that you recommended right up front. Let’s see how many documents we’re looking at and make the criteria for what we want to review.
Quite often, that happens years after the implementation, because they’re running through it and somebody who never knew about paper comes in after the original project team and says, why are we doing this?
And then the answer to that is well, let’s call our PI and find out what they recommend. And the answer is, I don’t understand why you’re doing this either. You came from paper, and you turn around and this is what the product is.
I did that with KKI just a couple of months back. I’m sitting there and going, wow, this is great. You know, let’s change all of this. You know, it’s exactly the way it works.
But it is the hardest thing to come from paper because the person charged with making sure that the policy is followed is unsure, unless they touch everything. And that’s really the hardest thing.
You have to build trust in the application. Yeah, you really do. And that is a major, major source of angst in the back office. And until you can prove to them that the system does exactly what it’s supposed to do, you really don’t make much progress with that.
Chris Arey
To get them to accept, yeah. It sounds like the best way to show them that is to show them what the application can do in an environment that’s similar to theirs.
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, literally. It’s not just a test environment. It’s where you go in, beat it up, and make sure nothing comes through.
Chris Arey
And show them, look, this is what this did. You have to figure too that that kind of experience or demonstration is going to help get the gears turning in their mind about all the cost savings and time saved associated with implementing a solution like that, right?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, I mean, the three cornerstones for the Infor expense management application really drive towards that very thing. The workflow engine is a true workflow engine that was built into the application. It’s not a third-party tool. It’s a workflow engine that’s dedicated to the expense management process. And it’s built so that it’s flexible.
They built this application to deploy in a single database across the globe, and you can set it up so that every agency has their own setup.
If you want to spend the money on that, you can do that. It’s a very flexible application, but its goal is to take that workflow and streamline how many people touch it, how long the document takes to go through it, and to make sure that you prevent anybody who is being egregious about submitting something. Those are the things that the workflow engine provides you with.
Now, the business rules are the second cornerstone. Those business rules are designed to give you that instant feedback, that acknowledgement that sometimes exceptions are required. But I’m going to review that and make sure that the exception is justified. Or, hey, guys, this is a little bit over the top. It’s a warning. Please look at your expenses and make sure that you’re not overspending on this particular area.
That kind of thing can also be put into the application. And you can sit down and make it so that it goes into the face of the user who’s putting it through, where it only appears to the reviewer.
So that the back office becomes omniscient, if you will, and they get back to the user who’s filing that and saying, hey, this is not appropriate, that kind of thing. And then finally, you have this, I want to say this structure that allows you to achieve a very fine level of accounting distribution detail.
You don’t get this a lot in other expense reporting solutions where you can split things apart easily. Inside XM, you have this ability to multiply distribute any given line item. You can sit there and cross charge 20 different grants or funds or what have you to the same account number, or you can build criteria that says, hey this expense when you have this business purpose gets this GL account.
If it doesn’t, it gets this other GL account. It’s very, very flexible to deploy that way. It’s an accountant’s dream, because you sit there and you put all of that accounting coding into the hands of the user, and you build the default set so that they only do the things that they’re used to doing.
But when somebody tells them, hey, you can cross charge this to this other part here, do it that way and that gives you the flexibility inside the expense report to control where it gets posted.
Those three things really add up to a much more flexible configuration set of options and gives you the ability to satisfy almost every business requirement.
Chris Arey
Yeah. It sounds like an organization decides that they want to move forward with implementing a digital expense management solution like Infor XM, it is important that you understand their current process and set up those fail safes along the way where you determine whether this exception is permissible.
And, and, and maybe like, there are certain situations where you can set it up where it’s going to go to someone so they can actually look at it and review it before moving it to the next step.
Rich Mitchell
Mm-hmm, yeah, absolutely. In fact, that part of the workflow where the review is there is so flexible that you can sit down and build conditions for going in from one place to another.
Those conditions can be very, very detailed or very broad, depending on what the circumstances. I mean, we’ve done it where if you pick an expense type and you have a certain dollar amount on the expense line item, it goes to this review activity and there’s a group of people that are dedicated just for that.
We do that all the time and that’s not actually limited to public sector. That’s a common issue across every customer that uses the application. So yeah, it’s an amazing scenario. And one of the cool things about it is because it’s so flexible in terms of setting it up, you can set it up so that it doesn’t make any difference whether it’s a business unit or a government agency or just a department in a universe.
You can set it up so that they have their own workflow, their own set of expense types, their own group structure, their own everything. And they can be completely isolated from everybody except the overarching administrator. You know what I’m saying? It’s a very utilitarian application when it comes to being flexible around organization issues. That’s great.
Chris Arey
From what you’re saying here, it sounds like you can set this application up too so that the chance of making mistakes or things getting entered incorrectly is probably greatly reduced. Those errors aren’t being made because you can set it up, right?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, I mean, in some respects, the only real issue that you’ve got is you still have a need at some level to validate receipts against the amount that you put on the line. All right. In some circumstances, that’s a much more labor-intensive process inside anything that’s public sector. And that can extend to anything. right. In fact, even inside health care, if you’re dealing with grant funding that becomes an issue because there has to be a match and there has to be a proper accounting of the allocation that you’re making.
But that being said, you can isolate those scenarios by saying, hey, listen, for what it’s worth, if somebody in the management team signed off on this, it’s on them, it’s not on me because I have to deal with so many documents that we need to make it more efficient in terms of what we look at.
If it’s got no violations and it’s below $25, I don’t want to look at it. and you make a reasonable, you put a threshold in there, you know, and in those circumstances, you know, you, you really are only looking for the exceptions.
So, the business rule sets the exception and then the workflow says, I have an exception. Even if it’s below 25, I’ve got to go there.
But if I’ve got no exceptions and it’s below 25 and it’s this set of expense types, don’t bother me. I mean, look at it.
Chris Arey
Yeah, that’s fantastic, Rich. I love how we’ve talked about now how to design a system with Infor XM that helps support organizations’ policies and meets the legal requirements as well.
I want to hear though; you’ve been working with InforXM for quite some time. Has your approach evolved over the years in helping public sector clients?
Rich Mitchell
It has. Yeah. Not just public sector, but in general, the approach has evolved simply because of the advance of technology in the digital age. So, you know, in the past, we didn’t have good imaging structures. People didn’t always have a scanner handy. You know, they might have to go in the office and run it off the photocopy or come scanner, come multifunction printer, you know, and then those kinds of things turned into a bigger issue.
In the US, there’s been some rapid streamlining of the process. So there are a couple of things that don’t apply to public sector that do apply in the commercial area with respect to receipts.
One of them is the need for an original receipt. In the commercial sector, if you have a credit card fee, the IRS won’t care as long as you’re attaching that feed transaction to the expense report directly and they don’t get to interfere with it at all. So automatically that becomes the receipt unless it’s a hotel bill.
But in public sector you can’t do that, so you actually do have to have an image. Nowadays you take a picture with your phone. Well, back in the day there were no phone cameras and the ones that were out there couldn’t do much.
Back in the day you would take a picture, you would scan all of the receipts in on a piece of paper, you know, get them all into one place, put a cover sheet on it, and you would send that cover sheet into the back office.
They would scan a barcode to say, I got it. And then you would be able to attach that receipt package to the actual whole expense report. So now you’re looking at two monitors. You’re going, this is my expense report line. Let me go find the receipt in this bunch of data. You know, today we put it right on the line item. And now you’re using OCR to say, hey, match this for me to the expense category that I want to put this on.
It creates the line item for you, fills it in, and it asks you to fill in the fields that are not on the receipt. And at that point, you become a completely digital opportunity. I mean, it’s basically, yes, this is the original receipt, but I’ve digitized it.
It’s on the line item that it pertains to. Everything’s good. And now the auditor can turn around, or the person doing the review can turn around and say, here’s the line item, there’s the original receipt. I’m good. Next line.
Chris Arey
Instantly done, yeah. I love that too. You don’t have to go somewhere and scan something. There was someone in the office earlier was trying to scan something and I was like, I haven’t used a scanner in 20 years. Just use your phone, take a picture, email it to yourself, it’s easier.
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, there you go. I mean, honestly, I have a whole folder of expense report scans that I did way back in the day. And now I’m looking at it going, I’m so happy I don’t have to do this.
And, you know, imagine, though, when you’re coming in from paper, particularly in a public sector entity, you’re coming from paper, you give up having to handle all of this stuff.
Chris Arey
That saves a ton of time too. And paper.
Rich Mitchell
Right. So it almost becomes generational in a way because, you know, my daughters will turn around, and they have no problem taking pictures of stuff. My granddaughter can probably handle the phone better than I can. You know, it’s hilarious to watch it.
But they’re automatically looking for how can I speed this up? Don’t you have an app for this? Yes, we do. Here’s how that works. But, you know, there are limits. And you have got to make sure that you deal with those limits appropriately.
Chris Arey
Yeah. Yeah.
Rich Mitchell
So I mean, public sector has got its own uniqueness. mean, in many cases, public sector is the last bastion of 50 reviews per document. I mean, their biggest issue is trying to figure out how to reduce that.
And part of the issue is that the person who physically owns the budget is too busy to look at every expense report coming in. So, there are probably a set of approvers in front of him in the same department that everything has to go through, and they’re supposed to check it over, make sure it’s correct.
Then it goes in for them. The number authentication. And even with that, the first review doesn’t catch the things that should be kicked out. You know, so the policy enforcement winds up not being in one place. It’s in 50 places and it becomes a real problem for the back office because they’re the final arbiter.
They turn around and say, you have the budget for this, and everybody signed off on it, but you can’t do this because it’s against the regulation that the commission has put in place and is enforcing. You have to change this. And that means sending the paper back.
It becomes a nightmare. And on top of that, there’s an extra thing in public sector you don’t really get as much on the commercial side. And that is before you go, you have to give me a form that says you’re taking a trip so I can approve it and develop a budget for your trip.
We call that pre-trip authorization. Inside XM, it’s a module called Travel Plans. So effectively, that’s a budget document. You sit there and now you’ve got two documents to fill in. And the goal is, I just want to put a budget in. Here are the five big expense types. And everything else is going into other expense. And then we’ll sort that out when I attach it to the expense report.
But by doing that digitally now, I cut the amount of paper that has to go. You know what I’m saying?
Chris Arey
And so, yeah, when you put that document in XM, is that then accessible by anyone who may need to file a future travel expense report? They know the boundaries of which they need to charge things and how much they can spend on that trip.
Rich Mitchell
You know, it depends on the organization. What I’m hearing you say is the person who gets to review it is the person who’s signing off on the amount and whether the trip is authorized to take.
And at that point, you have permission to go spend the money. Right. All right. At that point, you now have some options. Normally, the document stays completely inside XM, and the only people review it are the reviewers. However, Infor has built an export for that module that will actually post an encumbrance if the entity is using encumbrance accounting.
Now, some public sector governments are going to use that. They’re going to be heavy into it. And some are going to say, I don’t care about it. It’s travel. It’s ordinary travel. It’s not something I have to worry about. There is a budget number. I don’t need an encumbrance for that. I just need to make sure that we don’t go over.
Chris Arey
I see. The document that talks about what’s outlined in the budget is more so for the reviewers.
When they see a report come in or like the line items, they can reference this document and say, do these match up?
Rich Mitchell
Correct. Yeah. And recognizing that the developers for the expense manager application sat down and said, you know what, if you don’t add this detail, it works really well.
But if you do make it very detailed, almost like a clone of the expense report, then what we can do is set up a parameter that says you import all the line items. It creates the expense report document for you, and then you submit the expense report.
And if the travel plan has been approved and the expense report comes within X percent of that travel plan, just approve it. Don’t bother with the manager.
It just streamlines the workflow because you’re on double duty when you do travel plans. You really are. You know, in commercial, it’s not as big a deal, although there are some sections of the United States where it’s culturally common to see it in commercial. But in public sector government, it’s almost always required.
Chris Arey
Nice. Got it.
Rich Mitchell
Not as common inside universities depending on where they are geographically, but almost always required. Depending on whether or not you’re going to hit a grant, whether or not that’s going to be something that has to be accounted for early on and somebody’s got to sit down and talk about it.
I mean, those are the kinds of things that XM does really well in terms of being able to process it. Instead of repurposing an expense report document to do it, they have their own module. It has an independent workflow. It’s got its own business role as you make it attachable to the expense report. You can force the expense report to get it attached in certain circumstances. The business rule process allows you to govern exactly how tight you want to make this.
Chris Arey
That’s great that it really demonstrating how flexible the solution is. Really quickly, I want to be conscious of time. Would you be willing to share a story with me and our listeners today about any kind of tangible difference you’ve seen for your clients who have gone from a paper process to InforXM or another type of expense management solution?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, sure. You know, for example, and I’m going to dip into some prior history here because, for example, one of the big issues that universities have is because XM is standalone, it can be used without needing an Infor ERP.
Chris Arey
It’s standalone?
Rich Mitchell
Yeah, standalone, it’s its own application that passes the data back and forth. So, universities have specific GL systems that they normally work with that help them deal with funding and grants and contributions from alumni.
Those kinds of allocations have a very complicated accounting structure. And what XM does is give you the ability to satisfy that accounting structure inside the expense report and then pass that data over to the appropriate account.
The University of Illinois and Liberty University, both of them had the same issues and they both used the expense management application to streamline the approval process.
They cut enormous amounts of time off the process and streamlined their workflows by digitizing things. It cut their approval time by two thirds. So that was a huge gain.
Milwaukee County bought XM and did the implementation relatively recently and they’re now an RPI managed care customer. And they just recently turned on their travel plans function because they started to look at using that for their commissioner level or part of the organization.
They’ve got something like 231 agency groups that separate the data that you can work with inside the application, whether it’s business rules or something else. They can isolate each individual area within the county that needs to be separated from everybody else.
That gives you control. It gives you enough control so that you don’t have to hire 20 accounts payable folks in the back office. And I mean, that’s basically what it solves. I mean, that’s not to say that those people have to be let go. It’s just that you repurpose them into something where the review process is required.
You’re never going to get past doing a full review in anything that hits a grant or anything that’s got a dedicated fund accounting requirement that sits down and says, you’re going to hit this fund, you better tell me exactly what’s in here.
There was a huge scandal recently in some of the Ivy League schools where alumni donations were assigned only to be used for this one task. They got repurposed on the slide and that just killed their reputation.
Chris Arey
Sounds like a dangerous game. Yeah.
Rich Mitchell
Entire levels of management in those universities were wiped out because of that scandal. And this is one of the applications that would give you control over that because they would have to account for it going to that particular fund, and you would then catch it right away.
I mean, it would be impossible to hide it at that point.
Chris Arey
Yeah, it’s great to hear these real-world scenarios, Rich. I appreciate you sharing your background and some of your success stories with previous and current clients with XM.
We’re getting close to time though, and before we wrap up, I always like to ask my guests if they could offer today’s audience one actionable takeaway. Based on today’s discussion, what would it be? I’d love to hear what you have to share with folks listening.
Rich Mitchell
Yeah. Sure. Even in public sector, your best practice is always going to be to audit the 20 % of your transactions that represent 80 % of your audit risk. By audit risk, what we’re really saying is what’s going to be something that would cause a problem if somebody saw it being spent.
So, it’s going to be something that you’re spending on that’s either a mistake or it’s not appropriate. That’s all it is.
That’s the biggest takeaway. One of the reasons for the design of this application is to help you mitigate the amount of time you spend on the 80 % of the transactions that have nothing wrong with them.
Chris Arey
Nice. That’s fantastic. I like that line. I’m going to have to find a way to insert that into some other RPI content. I’ll quote you on it too. But thank you so much for hopping on the program today.
It’s been a joy chatting with you. For those of you listening in today, if you have any questions about today’s discussion or want to learn more about InforXM or RPI’s services, we invite you to contact us at podcast@rpic.com.
Again, that’s podcast@rpic.com. This is RPI Tech Connect and I’m Chris Arey. We’ll see you next time. See you, Rich.
Rich Mitchell
Take care, man.
